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Parabolic Formal Powerseries - Printable Version +- Tetration Forum (https://tetrationforum.org) +-- Forum: Tetration and Related Topics (https://tetrationforum.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Mathematical and General Discussion (https://tetrationforum.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=3) +--- Thread: Parabolic Formal Powerseries (/showthread.php?tid=1637) |
Parabolic Formal Powerseries - bo198214 - 09/05/2022 In this post the question was raised whether \(f(z)=-z+z^2\) can have an analytic half iterate at 0. It was found out that it does not even have a formal powerseries solution. So that sparked the question which powerseries \(f\) have formal power series iterates and which not. And I think I found a criterion. So lets start with a powerseries \(f\) with \(f_1=1\) and consider the condition \(g\circ f = f\circ g\) then there is the equation system \begin{align} g_1 {f^1}_1 &= f_1 {g^1}_1 \\ g_1 {f^1}_2 + g_2 {f^2}_2 &= f_1 {g^1}_2 + f_2 {g^2}_2\\ g_1 {f^1}_3 + g_2 {f^2}_3 + g_3 {f^3}_3 &= f_1 {g^1}_3 + f_2 {g^2}_3 + f_3 {g^3}_3 \\ g_1 {f^1}_4 + g_2 {f^2}_4 + g_3 {f^3}_4 + g_4 {f^4}_4 &= f_1 {g^1}_4 + f_2 {g^2}_4 + f_3 {g^3}_4 + f_4 {g^4}_4 \\ \dots \end{align} (For notation see this post ) With \(f_1=1\) and \({h^k}_k = {h_1}^k\) and removing equal elements on both sides these are equivalent to \begin{align} g_1 f_2 &= f_2 {g_1}^2 \\ g_1 f_3 + g_2 {f^2}_3 &= f_2 {g^2}_3 + f_3 {g_1}^3\\ g_1 f_4 + g_2 {f^2}_4 + g_3 {f^3}_4 &= f_2 {g^2}_4 + f_3 {g^3}_4 + f_4 {g_1}^4\\ \dots \end{align} From the first line we can see either \(g_1={g_1}^2\) or \(f_2=0\). If \(f_2=0\) then on the second line we can see: either \(g_1={g_1}^3\) or \(f_3=0\), if \(f_3 = 0\) then on the third line we can see: either \(g_1={g_1}^4\) or \(f_4=0\), and so on (knowing that \({f^m}_n\) is a sum of products of \(f_k\) with maximum index \(k=n-m+1\), so this sum is also 0 if the previous \(f_k=0\)). So we found out that \({g_1}^{v+1} = g_1\) is mandatory for \(v={\rm valit}[f]\) - valit is the maximum index up to which f is equal to the identity powerseries (e.g. \({\rm valit}[z+z^n+O(z^{n+1})]=n-1\)). This means if \(g\circ f=f\circ g\), \(f_0=0,f_1=1\) has a solution g, then must \[ g^{{\rm valit}[f]} = 1 \] (I didn't double check but vice versa all the solutions with \({g_1}^{{\rm valit}[f]}=1\) do exist.) For the case \(h(z)=-z+z^2\) one would take \(f(z)=h(h(z))=z-2z^3+z^4\) (because then \(f_1=1\)) , this has \({\rm valit}[f] = 2\) so we can not take the 4th roots of \(f\) with \(g_1=\pm i\) but we can only take the second roots with \(g_1=\pm 1\). However for the function \(h(z)=-z+z^4+z^5\), \(f\) would be \(f(z)=h(h(z))=z+z^5 + O(z^6)\). This has \({\rm valit}[f] = 4\) so here we *can* take all the 4th roots with \(g_1=\pm 1,\pm i\), particularly the two half iterates of h! I will post the series after I updated my formal powerseries iteration algorithm, and check whether it is true what I claimed
RE: Parabolic Formal Powerseries - JmsNxn - 09/08/2022 Bo, I don't have the time to get into it now, but this seems very similar to the problem: \[ \text{The half iterate of}\,\,-z + \lambda z^2\,\,\text{has no power series at 0 for all}\,\,\lambda \neq 0\\ \] Which is absolutely provable. And for higher powers of \(z\), it's reducible to this. It can quite literally just become a question of \(y = z^n\) and there are \(n\) branches--in no world is \(y\) holomorphic at \(0\). ----------------------------------------- I love how you reduce everything into taylor coefficients. I reduce everything into integrals or something like that. I love the taylor coefficient approach
RE: Parabolic Formal Powerseries - bo198214 - 09/08/2022 (09/08/2022, 04:35 AM)JmsNxn Wrote: \[ Yes, this follows from \(g_1^{{\rm valit}[f]} = 1\), the reasoning is like that: First we integer iterate to make the first coefficient 1 (because this is much easier to handle than any primary roots). \begin{align} a(z)&=-z+\lambda z^2\\ f(z)&=a(a(z)) = z - \lambda z^2 + \lambda (-z + \lambda z^2) = z - 2\lambda z^3 + \lambda^2 z^4\\ {\rm valit}[f] &= 2 \end{align} If you now have an iterational square root \(h\circ h = a\) then follows \({h_1}^2 = -1\). But surely also \(h\circ f=f\circ h\) and hence \({h_1}^{2} = 1\) which is a contradiction. But whom did you quote above? (09/08/2022, 04:35 AM)JmsNxn Wrote: Which is absolutely provable. And for higher powers of \(z\), it's reducible to this. It is not generally true for higher powers, it really has to do with the valit. For example if you have \begin{align} a(z)&=-z+z^5\\ f(z)&=a(a(z))=z-2z^5 + O(z^6)\\ {\rm valit}[f]=4 \end{align} Then you can take 4 4th iterational roots of f with first coefficients 1,i,-1,-1. Two of these roots are square roots of \(a\) corresponding to \(h_1=i,-i\): \begin{align} h^{|1}(x) & = x - \frac{1}{2} x^{5} - \frac{5}{8} x^{9} - \frac{25}{16} x^{13} - \frac{605}{128} x^{17} + O(x^{21})\\ h^{|2}(x) & = i x - \frac{1}{2} i x^{5} - \frac{5}{8} i x^{9} - \frac{25}{16} i x^{13} - \frac{605}{128} i x^{17}+ O(x^{21})\\ h^{|3}(x) & = - x + \frac{1}{2} x^{5} + \frac{5}{8} x^{9} + \frac{25}{16} x^{13} + \frac{605}{128} x^{17}+ O(x^{21})\\ h^{|4}(x) & = -i x + \frac{1}{2} i x^{5} + \frac{5}{8} i x^{9} + \frac{25}{16} i x^{13} + \frac{605}{128} i x^{17}+ O(x^{21})\\ \end{align} (Unfortunately I use the indices already to address the coefficients, so I could not call it \(h_1,h_2,h_3,h_4\), so called it in that strange way) In this simple case they are just the same function (i.e. the default regular iteration \(f^{\circ 1/4}\)) applied to x,ix,-x,-ix. But this is different when you have more complicated \(a\). For even powers we have: if \(a(z)=-z+z^{2n}\), (i.e. \({\rm valit}[a]=2n-1\)) then \({\rm valit}[a\circ a]=4n-2\). Means we never get \({\rm valit}[a\circ a] = 4n\) so we never have those \(\pm i\) roots. (09/08/2022, 04:35 AM)JmsNxn Wrote: I love how you reduce everything into taylor coefficients. I reduce everything into integrals or something like that. I love the taylor coefficient approachI think this is the most philosophical thing about complex function theory I learned, that the whole global behaviour of a holomorphic function is just given by the Taylor series at one point (because from there you just continue it anywhere you want). But really I spend some time with formal powerseries - and built a sage-python library for all those iteration stuff (Though not with those Brent-optimizations, just the naive approach with recurrence formulas) Up to now I only considered the standard case \(f_1=1\), and always wondered why the unit roots are not considered. It really costed me some grey hairs to fiddle myself through the unit root case. But now I am close to finish that case too. RE: Parabolic Formal Powerseries - bo198214 - 09/08/2022 Just to test my sage-lib: let \(a(x)=-x+x^4+x^5\) then \(f(x)=a(a(x))=x-2x^5+O(x^6)\), \({\rm valit}[f]=4\) and we have again the 4 4th roots: \begin{align} f^{\circ \frac{1}{4}|1}&=x - \frac{1}{2} x^{5} - x^{7} + \frac{1}{4} x^{8} - \frac{5}{8} x^{9} + \frac{3}{2} x^{10} - \frac{17}{2} x^{11} - \frac{17}{16} x^{12} - \frac{209}{16} x^{13} + 22 x^{14} - \frac{429}{8} x^{15} + \frac{147}{8} x^{16} - \frac{31917}{128} x^{17} + \frac{2407}{16} x^{18} - \frac{4057}{8} x^{19}+O(x^20)\\ f^{\circ \frac{1}{4}|2}&=i x + 2 i x^{3} + \left(-\frac{1}{2} i + \frac{1}{2}\right) x^{4} + \frac{11}{2} i x^{5} + \left(-3 i + 4\right) x^{6} + \left(-\frac{15}{2} i - 1\right) x^{7} + \left(-16 i + \frac{101}{4}\right) x^{8} + \left(-\frac{1513}{8} i - 12\right) x^{9} + \left(\frac{43}{4} i + 101\right) x^{10} + \left(-\frac{18907}{12} i - \frac{211}{2}\right) x^{11} + \left(\frac{12329}{16} i + \frac{669}{8}\right) x^{12} + \left(-\frac{406943}{48} i - \frac{1119}{2}\right) x^{13} + \left(\frac{52139}{6} i - \frac{40595}{12}\right) x^{14} + \left(-\frac{2215209}{80} i - \frac{1901}{2}\right) x^{15} + \left(\frac{2798725}{48} i - \frac{1946047}{48}\right) x^{16} + \left(\frac{25537919}{640} i + \frac{130513}{6}\right) x^{17} + \left(\frac{7666655}{32} i - \frac{6096887}{20}\right) x^{18} + \left(\frac{3365536581}{2240} i + \frac{3905543}\\{12}\right) x^{19}+O(x^{20})\\ f^{\circ \frac{1}{4}|3}&=- x + x^{4} + \frac{1}{2} x^{5} - x^{7} + \frac{9}{4} x^{8} + \frac{5}{8} x^{9} + \frac{11}{2} x^{10} - \frac{21}{2} x^{11} + \frac{133}{16} x^{12} - \frac{367}{16} x^{13} + \frac{187}{2} x^{14} - \frac{699}{8} x^{15} + \frac{699}{4} x^{16} - \frac{82707}{128} x^{17} + \frac{17417}{16} x^{18} - \frac{11755}{8} x^{19}+O(x^{20})\\ f^{\circ \frac{1}{4}|4}&=-i x - 2 i x^{3} + \left(\frac{1}{2} i + \frac{1}{2}\right) x^{4} - \frac{11}{2} i x^{5} + \left(3 i + 4\right) x^{6} + \left(\frac{15}{2} i - 1\right) x^{7} + \left(16 i + \frac{101}{4}\right) x^{8} + \left(\frac{1513}{8} i - 12\right) x^{9} + \left(-\frac{43}{4} i + 101\right) x^{10} + \left(\frac{18907}{12} i - \frac{211}{2}\right) x^{11} + \left(-\frac{12329}{16} i + \frac{669}{8}\right) x^{12} + \left(\frac{406943}{48} i - \frac{1119}{2}\right) x^{13} + \left(-\frac{52139}{6} i - \frac{40595}{12}\right) x^{14} + \left(\frac{2215209}{80} i - \frac{1901}{2}\right) x^{15} + \left(-\frac{2798725}{48} i - \frac{1946047}{48}\right) x^{16} + \left(-\frac{25537919}{640} i + \frac{130513}{6}\right) x^{17} + \left(-\frac{7666655}{32} i - \frac{6096887}{20}\right) x^{18} + \left(-\frac{3365536581}{2240} i + \frac{3905543}{12}\right) x^{19}+O(x^{20})\\ a^{\circ \frac{1}{2}|1} &= f^{\circ \frac{1}{4}|2}\\ a^{\circ \frac{1}{2}|2} &= f^{\circ \frac{1}{4}|4} \end{align} RE: Parabolic Formal Powerseries - tommy1729 - 09/09/2022 (09/08/2022, 06:03 PM)bo198214 Wrote: Just to test my sage-lib: this is completely logical , almost trivial : near fixpoint 0 , for small x and n > 2 , we have f(x) = a x + b x^n + O(x^(n+1)) Notice the other fixed points are always a nonzero distance away from 0. so if say a is 2 we are nearly solving y = 2 x. and hence the hyperbolic method works by the approximation y = 2x near 0. AND we then get a unique solution. Now if a = 1 we get a different situation f(x) = x + b x^n + ... so we are nearly solving y = x + b x^n or y = x ( 1 + b x^(n-1) ) y and x are close to 0 and close to eachother so we are basicly solving y = ( 1 + b x^(n-1) ) or 0 = 1 + b x^(n-1) so we get (n-1) local solutions near the fixpoint 0. and we can use those truncated (n-1) local solutions as asymptotics in our limit formulas for continu iterations , in the same way as we did with hyperbolic. *** confused ? ok look at it geometrically x + x^4 + ... = x ( 1 + x^3 + ...) = id(x) + x^4 + ... SO near the point 0 we get 3 solutions or said differently , 3 branches for the functional inverse. so we have a riemann surface ( for the functional inverse ) with 3 layers near 0. if it is analytic at 0 OR!! near 0 then by analytic continuation and the principles of riemann surfaces , the riemann surface will REMAIN to have 3 layers. So for t element of ]0,1] we must also have 3 solutions for f^[t](x) for x near 0. *** yes your examples had -1 instead of 1 but its the same principle. The higher terms are irrelevant because they vanish as x gets close to 0. To avoid confusion i mean they vanish for a given analytic near 0 case f(x), I did mean vanish for the divergeant taylor or non-existant taylor of fractional derivates near 0. AND that is all that is required. *** keep in mind , i said n > 2. because n - 1 is 1 when n = 2 but that is invalid and absurd because then we get another linear. Also keep in mind that I am considering x in the direction re(x) > 0. This matters for the amount of petals. for x = -1 we might not get solutions for half-iterates agreeing with x = 0,1. but at x = -1 there might be a petal that works. This suggests - by symmetry * re(x) > 0 or re(x) < 0 * - that the number of petals when n > 2 is equal to 2*(n-1). *** im wondering if real-analytic f(x) such that f(x) = x + b x^n + b_2 x^(n+1) + ... where b_i are nonnegative. and g(g(x)) = f(x) such that g(x) is the real half-iterate for x > 0 but not analytic at 0 , gives rise to the taylor coefficients g_m of g(x) growing as (m!)^(n-1) IFF some growth condition is given for b_i. regards tommy1729 RE: Parabolic Formal Powerseries - bo198214 - 09/09/2022 (09/09/2022, 12:12 AM)tommy1729 Wrote: this is completely logical , almost trivial : Dear Tommy, I think you heavily confusing stuff here. We are not talking about taking inverses, we talk about fractional iterates. Let me give you a quick overview of the problem: The regular iteration in the hyperbolic case has the form \begin{align} f(x) &= bx + O(x^2)\\ f^{\circ t}(x) &= b^tx +O(x^2) \end{align} So for t=1/q we have q fractional roots (with multiplicity) corresponding to \(b^{\frac{1}{q}}\). In the case b=1 however the regular iteration look like this: \begin{align} f(x) &= x + cx^n + O(x^{n+1})\\ f^{\circ t}(x) &= x + t c x^n + O(x^{n+1}) \end{align} So one would have only one q-th iterative root if 1 is the first coefficient. So, then Leo came up with the example of \(f(x)=-x+x^2\) and could not find a second iterative root for that and showed it can not exist. Which then lead to the general question for which \(b=e^{2\pi i k/q}\) there would exist a Q-th iterative root of \[f(x)=e^{\frac{2\pi i p}{q}}x + c x^n + O(x^{n+1})\] and the answer is iff: \[ {\rm valit}[f^{\circ q}] = Qqm \] for some integer \(m\ge 1\). Then there would exist Q iterative Qth roots of f of the form \[ f^{\circ \frac{1}{Q}|k}(x)=e^{\frac{\frac{2\pi i p}{q}+2\pi i k}{Q}}x + O(x^2) , \quad 0\le k < Q\] RE: Parabolic Formal Powerseries - tommy1729 - 09/10/2022 (09/09/2022, 05:26 PM)bo198214 Wrote:(09/09/2022, 12:12 AM)tommy1729 Wrote: this is completely logical , almost trivial : I am aware we are not talking About inverses. But they matter. Because when values are repeated in a neighbourhood ( we get multiple “ flows “ ) of a fix , we get multiple superfunctions adressing all those Locally multiple univalent neighbourhoods. And thus we get also multiple fractional iterates. Just like exp(x) - 1 has 2 solutions that fundamentally disagree ( no 1 periodic function unites them ) Regards tommy1729 RE: Parabolic Formal Powerseries - bo198214 - 09/11/2022 (09/10/2022, 12:08 PM)tommy1729 Wrote: Just like exp(x) - 1 has 2 solutions that fundamentally disagree ( no 1 periodic function unites them ) Two things:
PS: Calling something "almost trivial" with only a vague understanding of the problem bears a bad taste ... |